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Finding a low-cost Swiss broker to invest in ETFs is not easy. True Wealth is not a typical broker, but rather a digital asset managerwhich gives Swiss people access to ETFs.
With More than 20,000 customers and more than 1.3 billion Swiss francs under management, True Wealth is not only the largest Swiss Robo Advisorbut can therefore also offer extremely attractive conditions.
This review shows you our detailed True Wealth experience report 2024.
To compare True Wealth (TW for short), you currently have to look more closely in the Swiss market. This is because True Wealth is primarily about investing in the index or in ETFs, i.e. so-called "investment funds". passive investing.
This means that we do not invest in individual shares or even engage in trading. Rather, the focus is on the entire market and thus the risk of individual companies is minimized. Depending on the index (e.g. SMI = Swiss Market Index), the return historically varies between 4% - 9% per year.
And what does the True Wealth return look like, or what does the robo advisor do anyway?
True Wealth Performance is very similar to the market, but more on that later. The Robo Advisor offers you as an investor a very cheap and easy access to ETFs or passive investments.
The True Wealth fees look very attractive. How the platform works, what the advantages and disadvantages are, or about the True Wealth alternatives, you will learn below.
ETF investors might argue that they are cheaper to invest on their own in an MSCI World ETF, commodity ETFs, etc. Therefore, let's make a comparison. Abroad, there are some providers where ETF savings plans on common ETFs free of charge be offered. Since costs for Currency exchange and a Currency risk unfortunately often forgotten in the process, we do not make this comparison.
Therefore, only a comparison with a Swiss broker makes sense. For this purpose, we choose the largest Swiss online broker Swissquote.
Swissquote offers discounted conditions on ETFs. But in the long run, custody fees take a big toll. Here are three fee calculations for ETF purchases at Swissquote:
Swissquote examples:
Rough explanation of Swissquote fees: Custody account fees of up to CHF 60,000 are currently charged at CHF 80 per year. This amounts to CHF 1,600 over 20 years. There are also trade fees. Up to CHF 2,000 trades, CHF 9 is charged per trade (+ stock exchange fees, which we have neglected here!). All Details here in the review.
Swissquote vs True Wealth: Only if you have a larger custody account does it really become cheaper to do it yourself. However, the effort involved and, of course, the risk should not be forgotten. After all, a self-managed portfolio may be favourable, but it may yield a poor return. Swissquote also charges fees for tax statements (CHF 100) etc.
It must be clearly stated here: True Wealth or Selma Finance, for example, are definitely less complicated to implement.
Our True Wealth experience report shows that the concept is innovative in the Swiss market and therefore in high demand. The True Wealth Assets under management are already more than 1 billion Swiss francs large and comes from just under 17,000 investors! These investors regularly give positive True Wealth reviews and we can also provide this positive feedback.
The fact that you can only start from CHF 8,500 may hold back fresh investors. However, this should not be a knock-out criterion. Who would like to invest in ETFs in Switzerland, this can be done very conveniently with True Wealth and without much work for taxes etc.. Particularly noteworthy is also the combination with the True Wealth Pillar 3awhich allows a harmonisation of robo-advisor and pension provision. Overall, the True Wealth rating is therefore very positive!
If you want to compare innovative investment processes like the one above in the True Wealth vs Selma Finance duel, our Robo Advisor Comparison consider
What do you think of our True Wealth review? Is True Wealth a potential platform for you to diversify your portfolio? If not, why not?
We're interested in both, feel free to share your take in the comments!
With the True Wealth children's portfolio, a children's account can be opened and invested in for children aged 0 - 17.
The account is in the name of the child and is fully accessible to the child at the age of 18. Before that, the parents manage it.
The special thing? There is a separate access for the child so that it learns and experiences what becomes of the investments. Furthermore, the child can suggest strategies, which the parents then have to confirm before they are implemented.
Contributions from godparents or friends are also possible.
The Wealth Center also offers Robo Advising. However, here you have to appear at a branch to open an account. VZ fees are higher than True Wealth.
90 Responses
Thanks for the report 🙂
I already have an investment goal with Kaspar& with a weekly savings plan.
I still have around 10,000 on the side that I could invest. Would it make sense to invest this via TW so that I have two different providers? Or does that make little sense in terms of fees?
Hello Reto,
Most robo advisor fees fall as the volume increases, so bundling makes sense. However, if you want to invest in a target-oriented manner and clearly separate the investment pots, a distribution can make sense.
For security reasons, it doesn't really matter as long as your cash deposits don't exceed CHF 100,000. Shares are always held as special assets and are therefore protected in the event of insolvency. not endangered.
Hello Eric
Great, thank you very much. As the 100,000 have not yet been exceeded and probably won't be so soon, could I continue to leave everything with Kaspar&?
Dear greetings
Reto
This is always a question of fees, performance expectations (feel free to compare the investment strategies of the two providers) and, for example, personal trust in one of the providers.
There is no ONE best provider, in the end a provider must always be the perfect fit for YOU 🙂 That's why here is the Big comparison for a simple overview.
Thank you for sharing such an insightful article!
I've been utilizing TW and am genuinely pleased with its offerings. For those considering giving it a try, have a referral code that provides a discount on the service cost for an entire year, benefiting both of us.
Do I understand this correctly? Once the 8500 francs are invested, I can then generate my own ETF savings plan via standing order - and the amount is then freely selectable. 50 francs per month would also be possible?
Correct! It is only a question of the minimum volume. This also has to do with the fact that a sufficiently prepared spread is not possible with a small amount of funds. After that, you can add as much or as little as you want.
Use the True Wealth voucher code from this link (-50%)! With this True Wealth is absolutely cheap! Highly recommended!
What about withdrawals (withdrawing money)?
Can I withdraw any amount at any time?
Greetings René
Yes, this is displayed in TW: Within one (1) trading day you can sell and pay out all investments.
For each successful referral, you and your referred friend benefit from 0.25% wealth management fee for 1 year (you save 50%),
First of all, thank you for the detailed comparison.
I am currently invested with VIAC and Findependent and am toying with the idea of switching to TrueWealth. The 0% fees for the 3A account are just too good a deal. However, I have a question about this. I assume that you first have to open a "normal" portfolio with the minimum deposit of 8500 CHF to be able to benefit from the 3A offer. But once the minimum deposit has been made, could I theoretically only save on the 3A account?
Thank you in advance!
Hello Marco
thank you for your message.
Good thinking! You can actually avoid the CHF 8500 at True Wealth if you invest in pillar 3a. Because the True Wealth Pillar 3a is possible from as little as CHF 1!
Here the full contribution to that.
Hello everybody,
Hello Eric
Thank you very much for the very interesting, helpful and at the same time critical recommendation report. The report helped me a lot and motivated me completely to open an account with Truewealth. In this context, thank you for the code! 🙂
I am aware that you do not give specific investment tips. Nevertheless, I dare to ask the following question: Would you recommend paying in the contributions in excess of the minimum contribution all at once or - as I have often read - dividing them up to reduce the risk and paying them in individually? If paying in divided: Is there a rule of thumb for the amount of the contributions and the time intervals?
Thank you again for the interesting and valuable information.
Kind regards
Helen
Hi Helen,
thank you for your feedback!
The scientifically correct answer would be: All the money (what you want to invest and can invest in the long term - i.e. what you can do without in the long term) at once.
Psychologically easier: Set up a standing order with True Wealth and spread the amount over several months/years (depending on size).
Hope this helps you 🙂
No investment recommendation
There is a 3rd pillar 3a with True Wealth... There are no administration costs. Does it make sense to switch from Viac to True Wealth?
Hello Robert,
The solution is brand new and very promising. Accordingly, the True Wealth Pillar 3a experience report is still pending or in progress.
You'll hear news and my take on it here on the blog soon 🙂
Question about the fees:
I have another question about the administration fees. TrueWealth states that these are not included in the tax statement.
But is it still possible to see these somewhere, because I would still like to declare the fees in my tax return?
You can find your individual fees in the products used. The best way to do this is to watch the video tutorial at the top of the article.
Hello everybody
I have had a custody account of around CHF 150,000 with TrueWealth for just over 1 year. I am satisfied with the handling.
However, the current crises have caught me on the wrong foot: I have only about 50% in equities in the TrueWealth portfolio, so there are relatively many bonds in the portfolio. I really didn't realize that I could easily lose 6% on these "meyer bonds" (due to inflation and interest rate increases).
Am I correct in assuming that this 6% loss with bonds is permanent and will not correct again (unlike the stock market)?
Now I do not know what to do:
- If I increase the equity portion (e.g. to 80%), then I realize the current book losses on bonds.
- If I continue to invest in the portfolio, I'll buy even more bonds that I don't really want anymore.
- Just leave the securities account untouched and simply buy ETFs yourself from a broker (DeGiro)?
What would you do?
Merci & many greetings
Thomas
Hello Thomas
your stock quota of 50% surely had a reason or? Please check if your intention (to simply switch to 80%) is in line with your strategy/objective and time horizon.
Personally, I just continue my standing order and invest every month. But you should always consider your investments individually according to your conditions.
For financial questions about True Wealth, I can highly recommend their support. Just give them a call, they will help you quickly and competently.
I would be interested in your feedback here!
Kind regards
Eric
(No investment recommendation)
Very good field report,
has also persuaded me to switch and I have been using TW successfully for 10 months.
If you want to save the first year fees, enter the following code.
Cheers
Hello Eric
Thank you for your detailed descriptions.
Meanwhile I use TrueWealth, on your recommendation, for half a year and am very satisfied. I was looking for an easy to use tool that helps me to manage my investments automatically and at a manageable cost.
Thank you and I look forward to further exciting articles
Greetings Dominic
Hello,
A question, how high is the taxation or the tax rate in Switzerland when distributing an ETF at the end? If I use this as a long-term investment as a pension.
LG Corin
Hello, Corin,
in brief: Dividends and interest are subject to income tax as normal. Price gains are not taxed. During the investment period, wealth tax is payable on the invested assets.
Stamp duty of 0.075% is due on the purchase/sale. Furthermore, the domicile of the ETF is decisive as, depending on the domicile, the withholding tax on dividends applies (35%) or can be reclaimed. The reclaim is partly complex and not always successful.
A roboadvisor like True Wealth manages these issues for clients very conveniently, which therefore often ends up saving frustration and effort on taxes. If you prefer to create an ETF portfolio yourself, you should take a close look at these issues.
Does that help you? 🙂
Hello, Eric,
thank you for your informative answer and helps also first of all further. For the domicile of the ETF I had also already read that with domicile in Switzerland traded ETFs you can reclaim the withholding tax! Since these are few traded ETFs and most have their domicile for example in Ireland, it does not look so. Since 35% is already a lot. right ?
Hello Corin
Not only you as an investor, but also the ETF itself must pay 3% withholding tax on the income. An ETF domiciled in Switzerland on a Swiss index is tax-privileged. How difficult or easy the reclaim is, probably can not be said in general terms.
Hi Eric, I recently opened an account with Selma. Wondering if it makes sense to also open an account with True Wealth and split my investments between the two platforms? Merci.
Hi Robin, there is no general answer for this. What could speak for it: You have different "investment pots" with different goals and time horizons. Then you could, for example, in the True Wealth account drive an aggressive strategy that works towards an investment goal in 20 years. And in Selma you could invest towards a goal that you want to achieve in 5 years - which is why you invest less aggressively there (i.e. less equity exposure).
With regard to Diversification you must be aware, however, that the investment products partly overlap.
Does that help you?
Hello everybody
With this link you get True Wealth discount on management fee only 0.25% ...
Greetings
Robert
If anyone still needs a referral link that lowers True Wealth's fees by 50% for 1 year (even for me), feel free to use the following.
I am very happy with True Wealth!
If I choose 98% shares in True Wealth which % distribution to regions would be best?
Hello Robert
Have you already opened a free demo account? True Wealth will automatically take care of the regions for you in order to optimize fees for currency exchange, etc. directly. So you don't have to intervene here, just take a look at it in the demo account. Has this clarified the question for you?
Yes I have demo account however I have in it recommendations with bonds commodities etc. I want but only shares and do not know how much % on which markets would be advisable to distribute?
I have just entered a maximum risk tolerance. This results in an equity or ETF ratio of 98%. The "instruments" are then of course still chosen for you broadly diversified: USA, emerging markets, Switzerland, ... True Wealth proposes a mix that you can/should only influence to a limited extent.
Love!
Thanks for info. In my demo account I can change percentages of USA, Switzerland etc. at will by double clicking on share pie hm....(found out by accident)....
Right, thanks for the hint! In the pie chart you can adjust the geographical distribution. Maximum Switzerland? That will certainly save you some fees on exchange rates etc. but of course your diversification is not as broad as with a global spread. Since I don't give investment advice, I can't tell you here whether it's good or bad for you to change the strategy suggested to you.
I invest with a suggested mix and am very happy with it 🙂 .
I have unfortunately played with the suggested diversification so I no longer know what percentage was suggested. Must then probably redo everything... Thanks for the great website...
You can reset it by clicking on suggested mix 🙂
With this referral link or coupon, the management fee at True Wealth drops from 0.5% to 0.25% for 1 year, so you save 50% in fees!
I have after your report here set up a test account with TW. User interface is everything well Ersichtlich and Verständlich Dargestellt.
BUT a disadvantage is really that you can not directly influence the type of ETFs you get. TW says: "This is also not necessary" in a tooltip.
For me it makes a difference to have the choice between e.g. at least 2 of the well-known ETF providers for global/emerging countries/Europe/CH and possibly a dividend product because you can.... But at least it goes in a good direction.
By the way, in general I do not understand why it is so difficult to take an example from DE/F how to really bring about their own selection and savings plan-capable ETF solutions. Sure in CH the fees will still be higher but not in the total as today of up to 5% seen over all including entry and exit.
What also often leads to criticisms that many investors actually want to test the provider with 500-1000.- whether also yes everything works. Instead of saying ohhh that's for us providers but more effort than profit, you could also say if they are satisfied with us after eg.6 months, we demand a minimum flat rate for these expenses. I personally see a huge potential and market in the mobile spoiled CH. 🙂
Further I have nothing against our banks but should there be an alternative they must not wonder for their own future in the investor market.
Conclusion: Switzerland is years behind the digital development in this sector. On purpose?
Hello Tony
thanks for your feedback, I hope the you is ok with you 🙂
You have brought in a few topics here. Indeed, Switzerland still lacks a cheap online broker where ETFs (and other securities) can be bought cheaply on one's own and also purchased via a savings plan. However, since Schwiizerfranke exists (2019), I am observing some changes in the Swiss financial market and I am confident that we will see such a solution here soon.
True Wealth does not have this claim and pursues a different strategy. What TW does, they do well - I can say that from personal experience.
Dear regards!
Hello Eric
Yes sorry there I have taken some topics with in.
To come back to True Wealth: You are right, they do what they do well or rather very well, it is not because of that.
Thanks for your feedback from above.
Thank you for the review. You've convinced me to invest with True Wealth.
Thank you !
I have looked with TW times and made a test account. I find it strange that you create a profile and then get a rather non-transparent mix where everything is invested automatically depending on the profile. Here arise u.U. huge conflicts of interest that I can hardly control. I would like to choose the EFT's myself and not have to invest in something prefabricated.
Hello Danny
You can change the investment profile by clicking on "Equities", for example, and then changing the weighting of the asset class. A change is thus made indirectly. You don't have to deal with the ETF selection, but a suitable solution is suggested directly.
For those who actually want to intervene in the selection process of the respective ETF, Swissquote or perhaps SaxoTraderGo (only if invested regularly due to inactivity fee) are currently recommended.
I can personally recommend True Wealth!
Thanks for the great field report!
I highly recommend True Wealth.
Have fun investing and good luck!
Kind regards
Michael 🙂
Thanks for all the information, very interesting. Am I right in thinking that Truewealth is also suitable for "child savings" (investing in securities at low cost as an alternative to a bank account, e.g. the child allowance every month)?
As an alternative, Avadis seems attractive to me. What do you think of Avadis? Are there any other cheaper providers of ETF solutions/savings plans or similar?
Am curious about your ideas/experiences.
Yes, I have set this up as a strategy for the child. Unfortunately, it is not yet possible to open an account in the child's name, but I can really recommend it.
Kind regards
Is there perhaps an opportunity for an interview with the people behind TW - similar to Selma? It is still important for me to know how the people tick
Cheers!
Thanks for the interesting comparisons between TrueWealth and Selma. Does anyone have experience of how investments with ETFs at VZ Vermögenszentrum compare (e.g. costs, user-friendliness)?
A question that I have and that I have not yet been able to read out clearly:
- What about currency exchange fees/surcharges? Can the appropriate currency be transferred directly to TrueWealth via TransferWise in order to invest in ETFs in that currency?
- Or is it like DEGIRO only possible to transfer money from a separate account (I read it more like this so far, as it is a different custodian bank)?
Thanks for the post and maybe you can answer my question.
PS: I am torn between Swissquote, TradeDirect and True Wealth. Haven't invested anything yet, but have already read up extensively.
Hello Beni
The money is transferred to a CHF account and True Wealth then makes the necessary currency exchange for you. Transferwise I personally also use, but you should note that institutions due to special regulation and / or higher tranches, usually always receive more favorable exchange rates than we as private individuals. In this respect, you can use True Wealth's "care package" and let them do the work for you.
Of course, Swissquote offers a completely different degree of flexibility/opportunities. But it becomes much more complex and risky. Personally, I use TW for the passive ETF core of my portfolio and use SW for the satellites (see Core Satellite Strategy) or individual trades.
Love!
With my True Wealth account I have 4 IBANS (CHF GBP USD EUR) so I can directly deposit the corresponding currencies (I tried it first with Euro because I still had Euro at Swissquote). It says that the account from which I deposit must be in my name. But I don't see any advantage if you do the currency exchange with Swissquote or Transferwise as True Wealth has a cheaper surcharge (0.1% if I understand it correctly see here: https://www.truewealth.ch/de/wissen/gebuehren ). Swissquote used to have at least a currency surcharge of 1%. And Transferwise is I think also more expensive. I think these IBANs are only useful if you already have the corresponding currencies in another place. Unfortunately, foreign currency changes are usually not communicated or very intransparent. I have found no info at Selma, for example.
Thanks for your input.
Especially since these fees are not always charged in the form of a simply obvious fee, but often the exchange rate is worsened and money is made from this again.
I've been using Truewealth for about 6 months now and still love it. I have also tried the alternative Selma.io and I think the choice between the two depends on the capital.
Selma from 2k /TW from 8'500k
One thing worth mentioning about Selma Finance is that they don't offer their own app and you can only access the platform through the browser on your smartphone, which makes it a little more unwieldy than TrueWealth.
Hello, Cen,
thanks for your input! Selma has the app in the works and it's already been announced 🙂
I was looking at the different providers in the fall of 2020. And there I asked Selma in the chat for an app and I was told that it is very soon ready (it was said that it will still be available in 2020). So seem to have been a bit big words, because today I still find nothing in the App Store. But positive: have always received answers in the chat within a relatively short time. In the end I decided to use True Wealth, and so far I'm very happy with it.
Thank you for the good report. I have also been using True Wealth for a year now. The fees are very low and the returns are very attractive. In addition, the legal deposit guarantee of CHF 100,000 applies to the deposits.
@Stefan: A little tip: I chose Basellandschaftliche Kantonalbank as the custodian bank for True Wealth, because I have a state guarantee (as far as I know, this is the case with most cantonal banks). A state guarantee is unlimited (not just up to CHF 100,000 as with Saxo Bank). This is also one of the reasons why I chose True Wealth. I'm just a little more comfortable than with Saxo Bank. What I also find ingenious and completely surprised me: when I deposit money into my True Wealth account, the money is booked within a few minutes (!) and usually already invested in the evening.
Good post! I was not aware of True Wealth before. I have now opened my account there and have had the same experience so far: The opening works very fast and the first investment is made soon and straightforward. Thanks for the tip about Truewealth 🙂
Since I attach a lot of importance to hedging, I am now also testing Selma Finance. It is nice that there is also a 3a solution.
Greetings Peach
If you are looking for a very good 3a solution, I can recommend Finpension (compared for a long time and opened an account with Finpension at the end of 2020). It's also very easy.
Our Finpension field report is ready and about to be published 🙂 .
Thanks for the post and the link. I, having also done a Selma account a while back, have also opened a True Wealth account. I'm thrilled with True Wealth so far - especially the onboarding process. I've never experienced such an easy and quick onboarding process for a bank account. Too bad you didn't include that part in the testimonial.
Also, the sentence that True Wealth is not a roboadvisor seems to be a mistake? According to my research, True Wealth is the largest roboadvisor in Switzerland.
Hello Stefano
thank you very much for your feedback!
We briefly touched on the onboarding process with the photo ID. This one is actually outstandingly easy and most importantly fast! As mentioned above - 4min it took with us 🙂
This year there will be a detailed report on True Wealth where we will also take up this point again.
Kind regards
Eric
I am a "beginner" so to speak and now when I read the comparison I am as smart as before.
At truewealth I had a demo account from April until now ( I had "forgotten" and left it and not intervened) and made 18% plus. That seems moderate to me given the rally so far.
Now I would like to get in real and do not know how?
This (theoretical) return depends, of course, on the strategy chosen. More shares - more risk - more opportunity. Money can be deposited in the demo account and invested for real. Via the link in the post, there is even a reduction in fees 🙂
Love!
Hi all, in my opinion TrueWealth makes sense especially in the beginning as the percentage costs are not very significant. For larger investment portfolios, managing them yourself is probably cheaper. Good luck!
Hello everybody
So far I am also enthusiastic about truewealth. The whole thing is very transparent and you have many options (e.g. down to the level of individual ETFs).
Good luck
Hello, I am leaving a referral link that reduces True Wealth's management fee to 0.25% - for an entire year for the person who uses it (as well as for me). I hope someone makes a good use of it 🙂 Link
Hello everybody
I have been a TW customer for a few days and plan to use it for 25-30 years
pros
great customer service, they answer professionally and super fast
demo account to trust and play with UI and process
simple registration although about long (10 minutes max)
good referral model, you can invite up to 10 friends, and both get 0.25% for 1 year instead of 0.50%
so I'm leaving my referral here
Link
important: referral is also valid to register demo accounts, and the 365 days of discounts only start when you deposit the first 8500 CHF
i.e. you can comfortably try out the demo account without printing
cons
they use an expensive gold fund (0.7-1% Ter)
they recommend not to deposit so much on a regular basis and focus more on rebalancing. in my opinion, it needs both, especially if your profile has a very high proportion of one component. e.g. 70% stocks and only 8% bonds. then it becomes important to deposit monthly or weekly
I have not experienced any other rebalancing, I plan to pay monthly
weekly i think it doesn't make much sense as buy/sell stamp fees would fall higher as 1 rebalancing would take place per week
Hello Karl
A weekly deposit should theoretically not result in a higher monthly stamp fee as this is calculated on a percentage basis.
So whether I pay 1x (400 CHF x 0.1%) or 4x (100 CHF x 0.1%) the result is the same.
I have been with TrueWealth for about a month now and I am very happy with it. We are proposing an investment mix tailored to the investor. But you can also customize it yourself. I find the web interface very well done and runs extremely stable. You get a lot of information, such as diversification, risk assessment, expected return on the investment mix. Existing ETFs, transactions, the effective yield etc. are displayed transparently.
I find it worth mentioning that the rebalancing takes place every two days. Purchases and sales are automatically executed to restore the balance between asset classes, but also, for example, among the equity ETFs themselves. And all this at no extra cost. According to TW, this results in a better return of up to 0.5%.
New deposits are not left lying around for a long time; instead, a message is sent by e-mail immediately after the deposit has been made, informing you that it has arrived at TW.
Here still my link to the common profit for new registrations. (Basic fee 0.25% instead of 0.5% for one year):
Link
I can recommend Truewealth with pleasure. Easy to use. Earn money in your sleep. The system even passed the corona crisis very well.
Benefit from unbeatably deep feelings by sharing this invitation with me.
https://www.truewealth.ch
Hi there everyone, it's my first visit at this web site, and article is in fact fruitful for me,
keep up posting these posts.
I have been testing Truewealth for some time now and am thoroughly satisfied. Depending on the mix you have slightly higher fees and with a referral you even get 50% of the administration costs for a whole year.
These are normally 0.5% with referral 0.25%.
Thank you for sharing the code Adrian! Via the link to Selma you can get the 100% for free in the first year.
Thank you, Eric! A very cool site you have! Way to go! 😊
Hello,
I have become aware of this finance blog in the last few days. Finally something is happening in Switzerland in this direction. I like the fact that "Swiss" products are now also being compared and discussed for investors in Switzerland. There are already many finance blogs from abroad that aim in a similar direction. However, there are always minor details for Swiss investors, which is why certain things cannot be implemented in Switzerland (or only with great effort) (taxes, regulations, offers...).
If TrueWealth also finds an interesting solution, I can only agree with most of the experience report.
Have you had any experience with the Clevercircles platform from the bank CIC? In my opinion, it would be worth a comparison, as I also find this solution very interesting.
It is passively invested in 16 different index funds and ETF's (depending on the desired / met asset allocation). As I am a bit more intensively involved with the subject matter, it is also valuable for me to know in which individual index funds and ETF's the money is invested. The factsheets for the individual products are freely accessible on the platform.
The fees start at 0.6% (depending on the assets) and are therefore slightly higher than e.g. TrueWealth. What I find exciting about Clevercircles is the approach of collective intelligence, which can be used to roughly estimate market expectations. Everyone can decide for themselves if and how much trust is placed in which grouping. Of course, it is also very easy to follow the initial strategy using rebalancing.
A savings plan is free of charge and possible from 100.-/Mt.
What do you think? What are your experiences?
Kind regards
Hi Pascal, you're absolutely right - and that was partly the founding idea behind Schwiizerfranke! 🙂 Thank you for the comment and the question about Clevercircles. There's no review yet, but it's in the pipeline. The way the marketing is done at Clevercircles, but also how the fees are structured, I suspect a slightly different target group here. You can start there from 10,000CHF, which is not so little for some beginners. Because many want to "test" platforms with a small amount of capital. The fees are then 0.75% p.a. unless you increase your deposit to 100,000CHF - then the Clevercircles fees drop to 0.6%. Furthermore there is a minimum fee of 100CHF per year. This means that if you start with 10,000CHF, you pay the 100CHF fee per year, which equals a fee of 1.0% ... So from a fee perspective, this is not the cheapest platform. The concept itself is of course different from True Wealth or Selma Finance.
Many greetings
Eric
Great, look forward to it!
Yes I see your points and can understand them completely. From 13'333.- to 100'000.- you will be charged 0.75%. If I want/can invest less money, it is actually a bit expensive.
Keep up the good work with your blog.
Kind regards
Thanks for this interesting review. I have also been a client of True Wealth and Selma for some time. Both have their peculiarities and are quite different. With True Wealth the reporting seems to me to be more transparent and Selma is very easy and playful to use due to the few functions available.
In the review you write that sustainable investment is possible at Selma. This is also possible with my True Wealth account. With Selma, I had to do this manually with customer service (it wasn't quite as quick and easy - hopefully they have simplified the process a bit in the meantime), with True Wealth, a changeover was easily done independently in the customer profile (I changed it over about a year ago).
Customer service is very good in my experience with both. I have written emails at True Wealth that were written quickly and very competently. Selma also offers a chat, which usually answers quickly.
What I personally miss in this review is the custodian bank, which is still very important because that is where my assets are stored. For True Wealth I have Basellandschaftliche Kantonalbank as my custodian bank, for Selma only Saxo Bank is available. If I remember correctly, it would have been possible to choose Saxo Bank in True Wealth. But I like the Cantonal Bank a lot more and they have a government guarantee.
Surely the information about the fees is not correct here in the review? At least on the True Wealth website it says that the fees are between 0.25% and 0.5% depending on the amount invested: https://www.truewealth.ch/de/wissen/gebuehren
Selma offers a 3a solution for this which True Wealth does not have. I'm staying with VIAC for it, because VIAC is much cheaper and more comprehensive.
I use True Wealth as a savings plan solution via standing order (monthly) and it works great. From my point of view it doesn't make sense to park cash at True Wealth or Selma because you pay fees on it which is almost the same as negative interest on cash. So I prefer to leave the cash with Zak and transfer monthly what I want to have invested which works great and is always invested within 1-2 days at True Wealth. Or have I misunderstood your points about the savings plan?
My personal conclusion: Selma is (too) playful and simple and certainly interesting for people who are looking for a solution for everything (assets and 3a) and are also willing to pay more for it. But as soon as the investment amount is a bit higher it pays off to invest with True Wealth or even with a big international broker like Interactive Broker. Selma's higher fees are particularly noticeable over a longer period of time due to the compound interest effect.
Hello Stefan, thank you for your very detailed feedback! 🙂 Very briefly I would like to go into your points.
Sustainability at Selma: You had probably looked at the sustainability function at Selma in a very early phase. In the meantime, this is also possible at the "push of a button". The topic of sustainability, however, is worth an article in itself. Because the term is not defined and investment products are therefore not always quite clearly classifiable.
Custodian Bank and Deposit Protection: Saxobank is regulated in Switzerland and your deposits are protected accordingly.
As you rightly say, True Wealth's bank is also regulated and secured in Switzerland. I still miss with True Wealth that you can "temporarily store" money in a custody account. However, for fee reasons, I understand that. Further, one can argue that the concept is set up differently. With Selma, however, we are dealing with a wealth manager. For example, if one wishes to always have 10,000CHF liquid accessible in the Selma custody account, the strategy is always adjusted accordingly. With True Wealth, you have to intervene manually and sell ETFs.
Fees: The administration fee at True Wealth is not all that you have to pay. In addition to the administration fee of 0.5%, there are the product costs of the ETFs. In the end, it is always the total fee that counts for me. Whether you separate the rest or pack everything together is less important to me. What is decisive is what remains in the bag at the end 🙂
Your conclusion: Both platforms have innovative, attractive solutions and both are recommendable. The usability of both is very user-friendly. At the end of the day, everyone can decide for themselves what suits them better and what level of service they would like to have... I think we strongly agree, don't we? 🙂
Kind regards
Eric
Hi, Eric,
I would be interested to know what the average total costs are for True Wealth. That is, management fee 0.5% + 0.2% product costs + stamp duty + trading effects. Because with constant rebalancing, stamp duty/trading effects fees are incurred. I read somewhere that constant rebalancing can increase the return up to 1%, but whether this is always the case remains to be seen. In the end, you have total costs of 1% or more, which is not exactly little for a portfolio of over 100K.
Greetings
Marco
Hello Marco
For that, I would have to ask True Wealth for some data (e.g. what the average portfolio looks like and how often rebalancing takes place). The question is definitely exciting and I'll put it on my long-term agenda.
With my TW depot I already see a lot, but whether the data is then representative is another question. Then the effort would not be meaningful at all in the end ...
If anyone has ever done a similar bill and is reading this - please contact me 🙂
Kind regards
Eric
Hi, Steff. Really great feedback! Thanks a lot. Since I work at Selma's, I also wanted to go into a few points in more detail.
1. sustainability at Selma:
As Eric mentioned, this is now done with the "push of a button". With Selma, our goal is to respond quickly, so a few elements will be improved over time. Sustainability is a very good example, as this was a big request from our community. So at first we could only activate the sustainable strategy "manually" for customers, but since the new feature was so well received, we then implemented it visually in the service.
2. the fee
I don't even want to compare our pricing model in detail, because Selma and TrueWealth differ a little in the services they offer. It is important to mention that Selma's all-in fee includes all fixed costs (including the stamp duty, which is often forgotten). Furthermore, the fee is reduced to 0.5% for an investment amount of 150k CHF or more.
Hello Niklas
Am very interested in investing with Selma. It is well explained for beginners. Am still comparing the fees. So I see that stamp duty is additional. Is this new.@