The initial situation: International investments
With our strong currency, the Swiss franc (CHF), and a small domestic market, we have a a special relationship with international stock markets. Anyone investing in Switzerland can hardly avoid dealing with foreign countries.
International stock markets – and the US stock market in particular – have historically been very attractive investment opportunities. Major international tech firms such as Google, Meta and Apple offer the prospect of high returns. Indices such as the S&P 500 and the MSCI World are also popular as ETF investments in Switzerland.
However, when investing money throughout Switzerland, you should be aware that international investments not only have advantages for us, but also disadvantages and risks.. Therefore, pay attention to the following points if you want to approach your investments successfully.
Hoi Eric,
I am resident in Germany and would like to invest in Switzerland.
I am particularly interested in Saxo Bank Switzerland's offer and would like to know whether, as a non-Swiss citizen, I am also eligible for the same terms and conditions and the CHF 200 trading credits offered by this bank.
Thank you very much in advance for your reply.
LG Elgo
Hello Elgo
It depends on whether you want to open a CHF account in Switzerland or are offered a EUR account in Germany.
It is best to contact customer support for advice on how to proceed.
Hello Eric
Thank you very much for this great contribution. In your opinion, is there an approximate % proportion that Swiss equities should make up in the portfolio?
Many greetings
Nadine
Hello Nadine,
As a rough guide, one might consider, for example, 30%. However, this should be considered in more detail and also verified.
Because it's a bit more time-consuming: In the FinanzFahrplan (in german) We simulate various strategies and look closely at what proportion is suitable for your personal situation.
This should include the Human Capital to avoid the risk of clumping.
Hello Eric
Thank you very much for the helpful information! The question of currency risk really does concern me. I moved from Germany to Switzerland 15 years ago, I'm now Swiss and would like to stay in Switzerland for the rest of my life. However, I still have euros at a bank in Germany due to inheritance and gifts. I have now invested these via custody accounts that are possible without German residency (one at DKB and one at finanzen-zero.net; scalable capital or trade republic would be my first choice, but are unfortunately not available without German residency). I decided against transferring the EUR to CHF with the idea of diversification and risk distribution. I earn CHF, so my wealth accumulation is CHF-dominated. In the long term, I will continue to build up my assets in CHF. Two questions: 1. does this make sense in principle? 2. if I invest in USD ETFs/shares, should I rather invest in EUR or CHF? At the moment I am getting more USD for CHF, but if the CHF strengthens this will vaporise my gains in USD ETFs as you have described very nicely in the article.
Thank you very much for your mega good content!!!
Many greetings
Christian
Hello Christian
Thank you very much for your positive feedback on the blog! 🙂 I'm delighted.
Regarding your questions: It is important to know that the future can never be predicted based on the past.
That’s why no one can give you a definitive answer to your questions. Exchanging euros for Swiss francs would always involve a gamble on the future exchange rate, and I wouldn’t base a decision on that.
At the very least, using the relevant currencies for purchases denominated in those currencies is highly recommended. Using euros for euro-denominated ETFs and dollars for dollar-denominated ETFs makes perfect sense. This way, you’ll at least save on the currency conversion fees charged by every bank or broker. However, the trading currency does not alter the currency risk associated with the investments themselves.
Switching between currencies is basically speculating on the future exchange rate, which, as I said, nobody can predict. But I would advise you to at least avoid or reduce currency conversions and the associated fees. For example, you can buy CHF ETFs in Switzerland in francs and buy euro ETFs (if you have any in your portfolio) from your broker in Germany, where euros are already held anyway.
(Of course, this is not a recommended procedure for others reading here, but relates purely to this special case).
I hope these thoughts help you!
Best regards 🙂
Eric
Hello Eric
Thank you very much for your quick reply. And above all for the change of perspective in this somewhat special case. I do indeed think that the franc will continue to strengthen. I was thinking of keeping the euros in euro investments in order to hedge this currency risk somewhat, as I will still have at least 30 years of asset growth in CHF. But as I'm writing these lines here, I'm wondering whether this isn't a paradox in itself. Because if I think the CHF will strengthen, then it might be ok to accept the currency exchange fees (from EUR to CHF). And then try to invest in CHF ETFs with as much diversification as possible. Your article was really very enlightening here, because I had previously been put off by the often high TER and so I am currently also saving a world ETF in USD. A good example is the iShares MSCI World CHF hedged (ISIN: IE00B8BVCK12) with TER 0.55% and the same in USD (ISIN: IE00B4L5Y983) with TER 0.2%. If you look at the 5-year performance at justetf.com, you can see that the CHF hedged ETF has grown by approx. 48% and the USD ETF by approx. 65%. Now the USD has weakened by around 10% against the CHF in the same period. Maybe the remaining ca 7% difference is somewhere in the spread between buying/selling or currency conversion fees (the latter already included in the higher TER, I thought). Anyway... I still had 2 questions when looking at this and would be very happy and grateful to read your opinion 🙂
1. if you now regularly invest in a USD ETF via a savings plan and assume that the CHF will continue to strengthen against the USD in the long term, then you can buy more and more ETF units for the ever stronger CHF with every future purchase. However, a large proportion is already invested in USD, which will then naturally become relatively weaker. And now the only question is how much you will invest in the future and what the overall impact on the investment will be. Do you know of an online currency converter for these scenarios? If not, it might be cool if you could integrate one on your homepage. Because I've only just learnt with you how important the currency view is for pension planning, especially for the CH location. Otherwise it will spoil all the nice percentage points of the world ETFs afterwards.
2. let's assume that the CHF is getting stronger against the USD and EUR and you have both CHF and EUR cash reserves. If you now want to invest in USD ETFs, it would be advisable to do this via EUR, wouldn't it? Especially if you are speculating that the USD will strengthen against the EUR in the future.
So, those are my last questions for now 🙂 I would be very happy if you could give me a brief assessment (without investment advice, of course) 😉
A thousand thanks!
Kind regards
Christian
Dear Christian,
These are very far-reaching considerations that unfortunately cannot be adequately answered in the scope of a commentary. This would require too many simplifications that could be misunderstood.
Thematically, the questions fit perfectly with the content of the FinanzFahrplan, where we tackle exactly these kinds of topics. We will be starting again shortly, you can secure your place here: https://www.finanzuni.ch/finanzfahrplan
Otherwise, feel free to use the blog, here you can find some more detailed content on the topic of currencies 🙂
Best regards and see you soon,
Eric
An exchange rate risk can always be an exchange rate opportunity. The last 30 years have been unfavourable for CHF-EUR, but that does not automatically mean that it will only continue in this direction forever. Forecasts are difficult, especially when they concern the future 😉 But it is still important that you draw attention to this fact!
What I am currently concerned about in terms of financial issues in Switzerland is the increasingly frequent mention of investing in money market funds (or ETFs) as an alternative to savings accounts (which usually pay lower interest). If you always want the best interest rate, you currently have to switch bank accounts very frequently. A money market investment seems to be easier. Perhaps you could write an article about this? Does anyone have any experience with this? Is there a money market ETF in CHF? So far I've only found funds, but I don't know which one would make sense, what differences there might be, etc. Does it matter whether CH- or LU-ISIN? In many cases the funds are set up in Luxembourg. I recently entered a buy order with Swissquote (without actually placing it in the end) for a Swisscanto money market fund with a CH-ISIN, which would have only cost a fee of CHF 9. So is no stamp duty payable on money market funds? A lot of question marks...
Hello Sebi, thank you for your message 🙂
Theoretically, an exchange rate opportunity is just as possible – you’re right about that. It’s also true that forecasts are difficult, if not impossible. What can be said without making a forecast is this: a large part of the strength of the franc is a correction for differences in inflation. If prices abroad rise more sharply than here, the foreign currency must weaken against the Swiss franc. As long as this difference persists, logic suggests a further nominal appreciation. This is never a guarantee, however, and I wouldn’t base an investment decision on it.
With regard to money market funds, the risks (and also the tax issues) should always be taken into account. Currently, these are still too unattractive for my taste compared to a Well-interest bearing bank account. But I would be happy to take up the subject if they become more attractive.
Super valuable contribution. Definitely keep an eye on the currency risk. It's better to invest in CHF-listed ETFs. You might lose some performance, but a weak EUR or USD doesn't play a big role, at least visually. I have lost more than 25% in some cases just because of the weak EUR.
Unfortunately, the world economy runs in USD and many Swiss companies feel the weakness of foreign currencies in their CHF balance sheet. What I will certainly look at more closely in the future is the tax domicile of ETFs. Many a hyped ETF on YouTube is a bad deal for Swiss investors who have to pay their costs in CHF.
Absolutely right, Martin.
A note on the CHF listing: it saves you from having to convert currencies when buying, which is a real cost saving. It does not alter the currency risk itself, as the underlying companies continue to earn their revenue in dollars, euros and yen. Only a genuine hedge (CHF-hedged) changes the risk, and that comes at a cost.
It is also important to know that many of the listed Swiss companies generate a significant part of their turnover abroad, which means that they are still diversified internationally (albeit indirectly).
Thank you for this post. On the subject of taxes, it might also be worth pointing out the tax statement from Swiss brokers or banks. It's a great thing that makes it so much easier to file tax returns - especially for dividends. With foreign brokers, you always have to find everything manually.
Absolutely, thank you for your addition, Lars 🙂 .
This is exactly the issue I am currently dealing with. I have the "Global Blue Chips" at Yuh and wonder whether it would make more sense to save for the CHF hedged version, even if it is more expensive. But with the hedged version, the price performance is also significantly worse. Inputs? 🙂
Hedging is a whole topic in its own right, and even among the professionals, opinions are divided on this. It’s important to understand that the costs arise primarily from the interest rate differential between the Swiss franc and foreign currencies, not just from the higher TER. And because the Swiss franc almost always has the lowest interest rate, we Swiss usually end up paying extra when hedging.
When it comes to bonds, I believe one should completely avoid currency risk (always invest in CHF) – this is not investment advice. With shares, things get a bit more complex, and it’s not possible to make a proper comparison in the space of a short comment. I’d be happy to cover this topic in a future post 🙂
Internationally active companies operate in different currencies. So you already have a hedge. Globally diversified ETFs in CHF also suffer from a weak dollar. I invest in ETFs in CHF and USD; the TER is the decisive factor for me. I don't think the costs of hedging are worthwhile in the long term. I only hold fixed-interest investments in CHF.